The Celebrity

ARI

Let’s turn to Ayn Rand the celebrity and her attitude toward fans.

MARY ANN

She was a celebrity, but she didn’t act like one.

ARI

How do you mean?

MARY ANN

She didn’t want or need an ador­ing, protective entourage around her, go­ing with her everywhere she went, fawn­ing over her, flatter­ing her. She frowned on that practice. She had seen a lot of that in Hollywood and considered it phony.

CHARLES

There was an appeal­ing reserve to her. She was gracious about the atten­tion paid to her by fans and the applause she generated at public appearances. But she didn’t go out of her way to call atten­tion to herself.

ARI

Can you give some recollec­tions of Ayn Rand, the public figure?

CHARLES

Whenever she came to Wash­ing­ton, D.C., to answer ques­tions after a lec­ture had been given on her phi­los­o­phy, as many as 500 peo­ple at­tended. Here’s what happened the first time she came: when the lec­ture was over, she was announced, and she entered from the back of the lec­ture hall. In order to reach the podium, she had to walk up a rather long center aisle, right through the audience. The minute she entered, there was a crash of applause, and it followed her all the way; peo­ple craned their necks to see her; some stood on their chairs for a better look. It was a wonder­ful response, and she appreciated it—and said so to the audience. But after the ques­tion period was over, she took us aside and said that she did not enjoy that long walk. She felt self-conscious, and said it had the aura of the emperor enter­ing the audience hall. She requested that next time she enter through a side entrance. We did that for her next appearance, and she was much happier with the ar­range­ment. She was not seek­ing adula­tion.

ARI

Was she recognized on the street or other places?

MARY ANN

On­ly once, in my experience. Writers are not as famous as movie stars; her face wasn’t in the news constant­ly. But she knew she would be photographed by tourists. She didn’t like it.

ARI

Why?

MARY ANN

In part, vanity. She was not photogenic. She didn’t want unflatter­ing snapshots of her float­ing around. And she resented the intrusion into her privacy.

ARI

What about the time she was recognized?

MARY ANN

That was in a neighborhood restaurant, near her apartment. It wasn’t a place frequented by celebrities. Ayn, Leon­ard, Sue, Charles, and I were hav­ing lunch. I looked up to see a man point­ing a camera at her, and immediate­ly raised my hand to block the shot, and so did Sue. The tourist was surprised. Ayn explained to him that she did not like to be photographed without her permission. He was a fan, and well-mean­ing, and their part­ing was cordial. Of course, at large gatherings, peo­ple took snapshots from afar. She couldn’t stop that.

ARI

What about at lec­tures and other places where peo­ple expected to see her?

CHARLES

Always the gracious lady. We accompanied her to Ford Hall Forum in Boston a number of times. Her appearance always generated long lines of peo­ple wait­ing outside for admission to the lec­ture hall. It was a good walk from the street to the hall entrance, and peo­ple always recognized her as she approached. You could hear comments like “there she is” or “there’s Ayn Rand,” and peo­ple smiled and waved. And she always smiled and waved back. One time she was speak­ing to us and didn’t notice them. I said, “They’re wav­ing at you,” and she stopped in the middle of a thought to acknowledge them with a smile and a wave.

ARI

Did they rush up for autographs?

MARY ANN

No, they didn’t want to lose their places in line! It was not unusual for peo­ple to wait for hours, sometimes in the rain. The Ford Hall lec­tures were given in the even­ing, and one of the Ford Hall officials told her that often the line started in the morn­ing.

ARI

In a word, how did she treat the public and her fans?

MARY ANN

Respectful­ly. She took them serious­ly. I was a fan when I met her, and that’s how she treated me.

If you want lots of evidence of this attitude, and of her benevolence, just read her answers to fan letters published in Letters of Ayn Rand.1 In those letters, you see how much time she spent acknowledg­ing their comments and answer­ing their ques­tions. There was noth­ing “form letter” about her responses. She answered specific ques­tions with specific answers. If the writer’s letter in­di­ca­ted some confusion and misun­der­stand­ing about an issue, she took the time to clarify the issue. Just look at the length of some of those letters, and the detailed answers she gave. And, of course, not just to fans, but to friends, acquaintances, relatives, professional associates. And on subjects rang­ing from technical philosophical issues to her fondness for cats. You can get an educa­tion from read­ing her letters.

ARI

What kind of fans did she want, did she ever say?

CHARLES

Intelligent readers serious­ly interested in ideas. That is all that mattered to her. She knew that not all fans un­der­stood the phi­los­o­phy or took ideas as serious­ly as she would have liked. But she was a great one for giv­ing peo­ple the benefit of the doubt.

She didn’t need admira­tion from fans to boost her self-esteem, she didn’t look to them for confirma­tion that her ideas were right or that she was a great writer. But she did appreciate the fans who wrote to express their admira­tion for her and her work. In one of the letters, she writes that she feels “an interested affec­tion” for peo­ple interested in ideas. And that names the attitude she projected when deal­ing with fans.

ARI

Any interest­ing anecdotes about her meet­ing up with fans?

MARY ANN

I remember one incident she told us about. This happened in the fifties, I think before Atlas was published, or soon after.

One afternoon, she took a cab to a business meet­ing uptown. When she was com­ing home, it was rain­ing and it was rush hour, and she couldn’t get a cab. So she decided to take the bus. As she was sitt­ing down, she noticed that the woman in front of her had a pa­per­back copy of The Foun­tain­head, an edi­tion that had her picture on the back cover. Now, here’s the charm­ing, play­ful aspect of Ayn Rand. She tapped the woman on the shoulder, the woman turned around and said, “Yes?” and Ayn pointed to the pa­per­back and told the woman to look on the back cover. When the woman realized that Ayn Rand was sitt­ing behind her on the bus, she was very surprised and excited. She asked Ayn to autograph her book, which Ayn did. Then other peo­ple on the bus observed what was happen­ing and inquired about the woman sign­ing autographs, and this led to a few others request­ing autographs. Ayn told this story with such delight, and said it was the best bus ride she had ever had.

ARI

Anyth­ing from later years?

CHARLES

This was more than an incident. It was an entire afternoon. In April 1977 Ford Hall Forum gave a luncheon in her honor, in recogni­tion of the years she had spoken there and the support she had generated for the Forum. Invita­tions were sent out to the Forum’s mail­ing list. The Forum was very surprised by the response—by the number who at­tended and the distances they came. There were hundreds at the luncheon, from all over the United States and many from foreign countries.

All at­tendees were seated at round tables in a very large room. There was a raised platform with a long table for the guest of honor and officials from the Forum. It was empty while the at­tendees were be­ing seated. Then, when we were all assembled, an official from the Forum welcomed every­one, and said that he would announce the guests who were to be seated at the head table. And he asked us to hold our applause until all the guests were seated. Well, you can imagine that no one there was go­ing to follow that instruc­tion! So, he began to introduce the guests by name, and, one by one, they entered and stood at the table. The room was silent. Then, he announced “Miss Ayn Rand.” She entered and walked up to the table. There was a burst of applause—it was deafen­ing. Everyone stood up, clapp­ing and cheer­ing—there were a few whistles, too. She stood there, smil­ing broad­ly, eyes shin­ing. Then, he announced “Frank O’Connor,” and Frank walked in—again, the house broke into sustained applause. It was absolute­ly wonder­ful.

MARY ANN

It was announced that she would sign autographs after lunch. When that time came, peo­ple crowded around the table with copies of her books. At first, they were three and four deep around the table. So, to make the process faster and easier, a few of us had the guests form lines.

Frank stayed at the table with her, and peo­ple wanted his signature, too. Before he signed his name the first time, he practiced it on the tablecloth. One guest wanted the tablecloth! The process took over two hours. Many peo­ple had more than one book with them. And many didn’t want to leave after receiv­ing their autographs. They stood around, watch­ing. They wanted to be in the room as long as she was in the room. It was tir­ing for her, but she was determined not to leave anyone out.

CHARLES

Then, we walked with Ayn and Frank to the elevator, and a contingent of peo­ple followed, at a respect­ful distance —and they waited until the elevator doors closed, wav­ing goodbye, say­ing they would see her at the lec­ture that even­ing. She nodded enthusiastical­ly, and waved back.

Here’s another example of Ayn the celebrity: one night the O’Connors took Mary Ann and me to dinner at “21.”2 Ayn had been there before for business lunches and was known to some of the personnel. We were taken upstairs to be seated. There were tables in the center of the room where celebrities would be noticed if they were seated there; they would be the center of atten­tion. Ayn requested that we be seated in a quiet area to the side, where we could have some privacy and talk. She never looked for the spotlight.

In the downstairs area, I had noticed some autographed books enclosed in a glass case, some six or seven of them, all from famous authors. I wrote to the restaurant manager tell­ing him that we had been there as guests of Ayn Rand and asked if he would like to have an autographed copy of her novel Atlas Shrugged. He replied immediate­ly that he would very much like to have it on display. I wrote to Ayn advis­ing her of this and offer­ing to supp­ly the book, but she in­sist­ed on send­ing it herself.

ARI

She didn’t mind your not ask­ing her first?

CHARLES

Not at all. She liked the idea and said she was grate­ful to me for tak­ing the initiative. Ayn did not take this kind of thing for granted. She didn’t act like the all-important celebrity who accepted such gestures as her due. That was part of her charm. She was not a poseur. In fact, Ayn hated phoniness of any sort and if you were be­ing phony or she thought you were be­ing phony, she said so.

ARI

An example or two?

CHARLES

One night, she and I were play­ing Scrabble and she made a clever play involv­ing six tiles, us­ing a word I hadn’t heard of. It was impressive. I exclaimed, “Good show!” She looked up at me and said somewhat mocking­ly, “I didn’t know you were British.” In us­ing the phrase, I didn’t think I was putt­ing on airs. But from her perspective, it looked as if I were. It was typical of her not to let anyth­ing be passed over as if it didn’t happen, however seeming­ly small.

Another example happened when we drove them to the White House in 1976 for a dinner given by President Ford honor­ing Malcolm Fraser, Prime Minister of Australia. When I stopped the car at the designated entrance, White House personnel came to open all four doors. They helped Ayn and Frank out of the car. I got out to say goodbye to them because I knew I wouldn’t see them again before they left Wash­ing­ton. Usual­ly I would give her a hug and a kiss, but I didn’t want to disturb her hair or makeup, so I leaned over to kiss her hand. She didn’t like it one bit; she whispered that it was too continental a gesture, especial­ly in such an American sett­ing. Whereupon she gave me a big hug and kiss.

ARI

Can you tell us more about this White House visit?

CHARLES

Dinner guests were instructed to drive to a specified gate; Ayn showed their invita­tions and we were told to drive through and follow a road to a side entrance. The drive took us across the White House grounds. Except for the Swiss Alps and Mont Blanc, I had never known her to be impressed by natural scenery. But the sight impressed her so that she asked me to slow down so we could all take it in. “Absolute­ly beauti­ful” is what she said about state­ly trees cast­ing long shadows on broad, green, slop­ing lawns, about well-tended hedges and the touches of color in flower beds. She said it all looked as if nature had been careful­ly arranged. She commented that it was a marvelous introduc­tion to the home.

ARI

Did she say anyth­ing about that even­ing?

CHARLES

She spoke about the elegance of the occasion. From the moment they entered the White House, there was an aide close by, so they were never left to stand and wonder what to do next. At the time, Shirley Temple Black was Chief of Protocol and she presented the guests in the receiv­ing line to the President and the First Lady. When it came Ayn’s turn, Shirley Temple exclaimed, “Oh, Miss Rand!” in an approv­ing manner. Ayn said they were made to feel at home.

After dinner, guests were stand­ing around and convers­ing with one another. Ayn felt a hand touch her shoulder, and a man’s voice behind her said to please excuse him, he wanted to get by. She turned around, and was surprised to see that it was the President. There he was, she said, mov­ing casual­ly through his home, mingl­ing with his guests. She liked the atmosphere of gracious informality. She added that she was glad their visits to the White House were dur­ing President Ford’s administra­tion.

ARI

So this wasn’t her first visit to the White House?

CHARLES

No. She had met President Ford two years earlier, in 1974, when Alan Greenspan was sworn in as chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors. He had invited Ayn and Frank to at­tend the ceremony and had arranged for them to meet President Ford in the Oval Office. She was impressed with that occasion, too. When we met them afterward, the first thing she said was: “We met the President!” She didn’t take it for granted.

MARY ANN

Gett­ing back to the Malcolm Fraser dinner, after exit­ing the car and say­ing goodbye to us, Ayn and Frank were escorted to the doorway of the White House. They were happi­ly excited but they didn’t forget that we were there. At the entrance, they stopped and turned around to smile and wave at us. I’ll always remember her wave—it was a quick movement of her hand, like a cross between a wave and a salute.

  1. See Michael S. Berliner (ed.), Letters of Ayn Rand, Penguin Dutton, 1995. ←

  2. A famous Manhattan restaurant, frequented by celebrities ←

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